tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post1243867868870864423..comments2024-01-04T01:16:23.041-05:00Comments on Life After Stern College: Hashkafa: Modern Orthodox or Yeshivish/Black Hat?SternGradhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04629199158696400120noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-45522277126406380592019-04-30T17:35:20.353-04:002019-04-30T17:35:20.353-04:00After reading all if this my view hasn't chang...After reading all if this my view hasn't changed. I'm Jewish and human- anyone who needs to classify me will deal with HaShem when the time comes. I seriously don't think an outward classification for social purposes matter as anyone can wear a costume and convince themselves they are something they are not. Equally so, someone who doesn't dress to fit any of these classifications and doesn't wear a kippa in public may easily have a pure heart. Social labels are just that. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01929534541971955469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-42380879504206330832017-04-28T17:43:35.771-04:002017-04-28T17:43:35.771-04:00If you would like an alternative to randomly picki...If you would like an alternative to randomly picking up girls and trying to figure out the right thing to do...<br /><br />If you would rather have women pick YOU, instead of spending your nights prowling around in crowded bars and restaurants...<br /><br />Then I urge you to watch this eye-opening video to unveil a weird little secret that might get you your own harem of hot women: <br /><br /><b><a href="http://dating.syntaxlinks.com/r/FacebookSeductionSystem" rel="nofollow">FACEBOOK SEDUCTION SYSTEM</a></b>!!!Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-31390982107001257422014-05-21T13:41:38.260-04:002014-05-21T13:41:38.260-04:00I cannot thank you enough for your article. You re...I cannot thank you enough for your article. You really clarified the position of Modern Orthodoxy and Yeshivish people is a clear, non-judgmental and fair way. I am dating someone who falls into your category and you really helped me see what he stands for.<br /><br />Thank you so much! You don't even know how much you helped me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-372664042595116372013-08-13T04:24:22.587-04:002013-08-13T04:24:22.587-04:00Try to think on the positive side....really it doe...Try to think on the positive side....really it does exist! Basically no one fits into these categories exactly, so in reality there has to be a whole lot of people who also are in sinc with you. I really like the name Frumfusion, not being confused, but different types "fused together". While I'm still navigating the dating websites myself (Im mietz' hashem by all of us real soon!), I try to also decide on the category of hashkafah by the type of guy I want to notice me. In reality I'm between modern orthodox liberal and modern orthodox machmir. I'm sincere about my observance, no mixed dancing, but I'm not machmir personality, so I chose modern orthodox liberal<br /><br />. ....And don't forget you can always choose a category then continue to write on the site, why you really don't fit into that category....at least the folks reading it will know you have an opinion....and are able to compose a sentence!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-6917231084367015462013-05-01T17:28:23.643-04:002013-05-01T17:28:23.643-04:00Wow so I'm not the only person who doesn't...Wow so I'm not the only person who doesn't feel like I fit into a category. I just started the dating web-site thing and its giving me a migraine. <br />My families chassidish but I follow the halachic rulings of my yeshivish seminary and have internet access like modern orthodox type people. I never noticed how messed-up I am. I need my own personal category. I'll name it frumfussion. Ill think of a better name later. <br />Is there a diff between reading secular books/having internet because your bored out of your box but you hate yourself for it, or doing those things because you believe in being worldly lest you get crushed by the world for your ignorance? <br />two advils should do itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-44200021290574565652012-08-27T21:05:36.619-04:002012-08-27T21:05:36.619-04:00I pity the single Orthodox Jews who cannot figure ...I pity the single Orthodox Jews who cannot figure out which category they belong to; they will have a hard time getting married, due to no fault of their own.Mr. Cohenhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/DerechEmet/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-15447390928911656512011-08-01T17:55:19.486-04:002011-08-01T17:55:19.486-04:00I am modern orthodox. I go mixed swimming, go bal...I am modern orthodox. I go mixed swimming, go ball room dancing and hear women singing at the concert halls.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-66921777251344060982011-02-10T23:34:19.587-05:002011-02-10T23:34:19.587-05:00I didn't make it up. It's the hashkafah of...I didn't make it up. It's the hashkafah of "real" yekkis. <br /><br />(From what I hear, the youngest generation has been brainwashed into adopting yeshivishness and not holding their minhagim in high regard.)<br /><br />Yekkis will probably soon disappear the way of the jedi...lawschooldrunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981455538460795016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-13538358574093888352011-02-09T21:06:39.804-05:002011-02-09T21:06:39.804-05:00lawschool drunk- "Torah Im Derech Eretz"...lawschool drunk- "Torah Im Derech Eretz"- I like that one. That sounds like a lot how I feel about things.SternGradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04629199158696400120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-23727873882630336632011-02-09T19:37:39.417-05:002011-02-09T19:37:39.417-05:00How about just torah im derech eretz?
Make no mis...How about just torah im derech eretz?<br /><br />Make no mistake, this is very different than torah umadda because under torah umadda, torah is on an equal level with secular subjects. Under torah im derech eretz, the primary is torah, and secular is important but only to serve torah.<br /><br />I think that, while I may go for a girl with a particular hashkafic description, background is very important and if my date is different than the rest of her family, it negates her description somewhat because it changes a lot of factors.lawschooldrunkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06981455538460795016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-79651767960813590282010-05-06T13:41:32.808-04:002010-05-06T13:41:32.808-04:00Anonymous- You are right. I am not Yeshivish. Th...Anonymous- You are right. I am not Yeshivish. That is why I decided to call myself Modern Orthodox Machmir. But my struggle was with the fact that it is 100% for social reasons- like you mentioned. When it comes down to philosophy, I am more Yeshivish than some people who call themselves Yeshivish. It's interesting that you brought up the "sof" vs. "tof" difference because that's one area that reflects my struggle to find balace between the two. When I write I always use "tof" because that’s what my parents say and that is what my elementary school used. But in high school my teachers said "sof" and when I daven/read hebrew, sometimes I say "tof" and sometimes "sof." What's funnier is that growing up, the only people I knew who said "sof" were my Reform/not religious cousins!! When I wrote my post "Kipot" I was debating for a while whether to call it "Kipot" or "Kippahs" or "Yarmulkes." The only reason I'm making these points is not to say that I'm Yeshivish- I know I'm not Yeshivish and I'm OK with that (mostly), but I'm not 100% Modern Orthodox either, so by classifying myself as Modern Orthodox Machmir, people do not have a full understanding of my Hashkafa.<br /><br />Sefardi Gal- interesting definition of Modern Orthodox Machmir. I think most people would agree. The problem is that pretty much all of those things apply to Modern Orthodox Liberal...hmm…maybe I need to write a post about that one (the difference between Modern Orthodox Liberal and MO Machmir).<br /><br />Bookworm- I agree, criteria change. It seems that so many keep complaining of Modern Orthodoxy is moving to the right, while some complain that it's moving left. I guess that's why there are the two categories.SternGradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04629199158696400120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-26514363549369781582010-05-06T12:19:16.979-04:002010-05-06T12:19:16.979-04:00That's why I don't go on dating sites. I h...That's why I don't go on dating sites. I have no idea what I am on the list. Although, Modern Orthodox used to be anyone who went to college, according to one rabbi. Everyone has their own opinions of what these labels mean. When I was in high school, plenty of people said "Oh, she's modern," whatever that means, and they now do what that person did to classify herself as such. <br /><br />Labels/criteria change.Bookwormnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-30916105059255727582010-05-06T11:32:53.328-04:002010-05-06T11:32:53.328-04:00SternGrad, as you've mentioned, this is a comp...SternGrad, as you've mentioned, this is a complicated issue. I used to think "ughhh, why can't they just put Orthodox or shomer halacha and zehu?"<br />But overtime, I've come to somewhat appreciate the labels because it gives you a sense of their hashkafah.<br />I remember when I signed up for Saw You at Sinai, I checked off all the Modern Orthodox's and Yeshivish Modern and Black Hat. Why? Because I thought I'd be missing out on so many great guys if I only limit myself to one or two categories.<br />But right now, the only ones checked off are Modern Orthdox Machmir and Yeshivish Modern. I realized that those are the hashkafot in my range.<br /><br />The way I see it, Modern Orthdox Machmir means:<br />-an Orthodox Jew who has Yirat Shamayim <br />-believes in keeping halacha 100% while still living in the real world<br />-kovea itim l'Torah and working<br />-perhaps listens to secular music/watching movies, but not necessarily. <br />-Zionist/Supporter of the State of Israel<br /><br />Yeshivish Modern means:<br />the same as above, except he may not be zionist and would probably want to send his kids to yeshivish schools. <br /><br />Personally, I call myself a Yeshivish Modern & Religious Zionist, but I just check myself off as "Modern Orthdox machmir" on Saw You At Sinai and specify on my profile that I prefer not to have a TV because:<br />1) I am Modern Orthodox in many senses. Like Shades - I agree with the Torah u'Maddah ideal.<br />2) I like YU guys!Sefardi Galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03041724538794932296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-16513218062165964922010-05-06T10:18:37.415-04:002010-05-06T10:18:37.415-04:00Disclaimer:
I went to very Yeshivish schools, I we...Disclaimer:<br />I went to very Yeshivish schools, I wear a black hat proudly, my family all learned (or will) in Kollel, I will send my children only to the type of schools I went too, I work but learn b'hadmodah every day and I married a Stern girl. I will not go to movies or listen to non-jewish music. i do watch TV. I spent 5 years in Beis medrash but went to school at night. In short, I am full of contradictions but am part of the "yeshiva" crowd.<br /><br />Yeshivish modern means grew up yeshivish but made a visible effort to move more left. it is a type of rebellion - but I only use those words for a lack of a better term. Because of this, I do not consider myself yeshivhs modern because my working or secular interests do not stem from rebellion but realizing that I would be committing bittul torah in going to Kollel rather than working. My hashkafah was strong enough that I did not need to extra 2 years, while being first marries, under the protection of my yeshiva. While I step into the real world every day, much of it is because of necessity and what I do for relaxation is not out of rebellion but exposure.<br />Modern machmir is the flip side. Someone who grew up modern and moved to the right - it does sound like you.<br />SternGrad - nothing personal but you are not yeshivish (and don't be sad about it). There are several small things. There are very few proud Stern grads that can legitimately call themselves yeshivish. It is an argument I have with my wife all the time. YU is the mothership of modern orthodoxy. You can be very frum and keep all halachah and the people in REITS probably learn more torah and at a higher level than those in Lakewood - but people asscoaited with YU are not Yeshivish. No black-hat yeshivah guy will ever call that person yeshivish unless they basically disown that part of their lives. Many of my parents age people went to YU/Stern but they simply downplay it today because in the Yehsiva world it is Taboo. To call yourself a fiercly proud Stern grad essentially says that you are not Yeshivish.<br />But going to Stern does not itself make you modern - I do not believe my wife is modern. Your family background is what does that. A small point is the way you pronounce hebrew letters. You write with a "TOF" and not a "SOF". For example KipoT, KoTel and chumroT. I am not saying what is right and wrong in terms of Ivrah, but Yeshivish guys would call that modern.<br />Lastly, Yeshivish is a mindset that is one part being l'chumrah (which you got) but it is also a mindset on appearance. To yeshivish people - the type of Yarmukle (and yeshivhish guys would never call it a Kippah unless refering to a srugi) is a huge statement. The fact that you even need to ask about it - shows that you are not really in tune with the importance of the appearance aspect. Again, not a critisicm but a point that unless you are in the yeshiva world, you may not fully appreciate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-85269029567018386652010-05-06T09:10:37.007-04:002010-05-06T09:10:37.007-04:00Nate- I agree that ideally it would be just best t...Nate- I agree that ideally it would be just best to say "I'm an Orthodox Jew," but unfortunately that doesn't tell people enough about your beliefs. Some Orthodox women cover their hair after marriage, and some don't. Some women wear skirts and some wear pants. They are all Orthodox.<br />You make a very good point that certain types of dress (such as a black hat) do not necessarily indicate what beliefs a person has or what actions they do.<br /><br />BJG- Interesting. I've never heard of that. I have heard of MODERN Orthodox and Modern ORTHODOX. But if you're already going to make them into two groups, why not just give each group its own name? I completely agree that a problem is that people have different opinions on what the terms means. Some dating websites have the option after you list your hashkafa to answer the question "What does that hashkafa mean to you?" I think that's a great quesiton, but people don't seem to really answer it. They'll say "It means I keep halacha," which is completely unhelpful because lots of people think they are keeping halacha but are not. But I thought it was a good idea for a question.<br /><br />Shades- I like that idea- "Yeshivish" Maikel." I was thinking of calling it "Yeshiva Orthodox" which is the other way of combining "Modern Orthodox" and "Yeshivish" that's not Modern Yeshivish, and it also plays on the fact that "Yeshiva" is short for "Yeshiva University." A friend of mine said that a Rabbi of hers calls it "Modern Orthodox L'Chatchila." I definitely agree that none of them are the one true hashkafa- they are each different, none is right or wrong.SternGradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04629199158696400120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-42455719349858552882010-05-06T01:15:09.397-04:002010-05-06T01:15:09.397-04:00This is why I keep myself in the grey area - I don...This is why I keep myself in the grey area - I don't subscribe to any particular hashkafa, though I through my time at YU have found the "Modern Orthodox Machmir," or in my own mind, legitimately Torah Umadda perspective to be very appealing. <br /><br />A friend of mind recently told me he was looking for someone who is "Yeshivish Maikel" which I thought was hilarious. <br /><br />You make a lot of good points though. I honestly think the "shomer Torah U'mitzvos" label is probably the best and most neutral - it should really mean - I keep the Shulchan Aruch seriously, so stop being nitpicky about what clothes I wear since they're tzniyus anyway (that goes for guys and girls, btw). But everyone seems to think it's a step down of sorts. <br /><br />I always get into this whole long discussion with shadchanim because labels don't do justice to what you are - a very uniquely defined hashkafic entity. So I always talk about the greyness and being in between - liking bits of all hashkafos, but having ta'anos on all of them as well. None of them are THE one true hashkafa anyway, and more people need to realize that.Shades of Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02733139852424935591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-73846503777968273562010-05-05T23:16:03.737-04:002010-05-05T23:16:03.737-04:00Some places have MODERN Yeshivish and Modern YESHI...Some places have MODERN Yeshivish and Modern YESHIVISH categories, in that case I would put you into the former and me into the latter, b/c I come from a yeshivish background but watch TV/Movies and stuff. The problem is everyone has their own ideas of what these things mean.BJGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17284005539217450744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4895527034843171824.post-23359456330988479312010-05-05T20:03:48.679-04:002010-05-05T20:03:48.679-04:00I agree 100% and whenever that particular issue of...I agree 100% and whenever that particular issue of labeling comes up, I'd like to explain what my philosophy is (I'd rather just say, "I'm an Orthodox Jew...isn't that enough?")but then I don't know where to start or what to address. I just say I'm Modern Orthodox Machmir since I lean more towards that outlook although there are things I don't agree with. <br />If I put down Modern Yeshivish, I gotta dress the part then but I have a problem with THAT. Since when did wearing a black hat make a person any more religious than the next person?? I went to a Yeshivish high school and there were plenty of people who did not uphold the views and teachings that were being preached and they STILL wear a hat today! A sister of a friend of mine was looking for someone who wore a black hat. I asked her if she cared whether or not the guy should be a good person who is sincere when it comes to Judaism. <br />This labeling issue is kind of similar to your "kippot" entry. I was in a relationship a couple of years ago and the girl asked me why I wear a kippa sruga and I told her that I just prefer that type of kipa. She went insane and started yelling that people wear different kippot to associate themselves with a certain sect in Judaism. At that point, I had absolutely no idea and I thought (and still think) that it's one of the MOST ridiculous things that people believe.Natenoreply@blogger.com