For Papa, for Mama

There is a line in the Fiddler on the Roof song “Matchmaker,” (a song which, as a side point, I do not particular like for a number of reasons) where the daughters dream about the young man they hope to end up with, that goes:

“For Papa, make him a scholar, for Mama, make him rich as a king…”

I couldn’t help but think about this line as I was on one particular date, and while I was listening to the guy talk all I could think about was how much my parents would like him because he had certain characteristics, and how certain of my siblings would like him for various other characteristics. There was a particular activity that he enjoyed that my father enjoys as well, and I could picture my father’s face lighting up were I to tell him I was dating a guy who liked such things. For some reason, however, I just didn’t like the guy myself. Just to set the record straight, I really tried to like him.

This got me thinking about how fortunate I am to be very close with my parents and to see eye to eye with them in most areas. Their opinion is very valuable to me, and I can’t imagine ever marrying someone who they did not approve of. They are very supportive of me and they trust my judgment, so if there was someone who I liked that much, I think they would probably like that person too. Even though some use marriage as another way of rebelling against their parents, I am quite the opposite and every time I date a guy I think about how he would fit into my family. Finding the right person is not just about finding someone who I want to spend the rest of my life with and who wants to spend the rest of his life with me, but someone who my family wants to spend the rest of their lives with too.

Interestingly, the situation has never happened in reverse. I don’t think I’ve ever dated a guy who I liked, but who I thought my parents would disapprove of. Probably this is because my parents are not pressuring and have never, ever told me something that they want or expect of the guy I marry, so long as I am happy. When I say I thought my parents would like the guy I mentioned before (even though I did not) I mean that I know them well enough to know that even though they insist they will be happy with any guy I choose (and who chooses me), there are still certain personalities and certain types of guys that I know they would get along with better than others.

So when I met a guy who I thought they would like, I was determined to give it a chance. But I realized that when it comes down to it, there is a certain point where you shouldn't be trying quite that hard. I’m the one marrying the guy, and not them, so even though they get stuck with whoever I choose, my opinion matters the most. Even though he might have been good “for papa” and “for mama,” the rest of the song continues with the words “for me,” and that is equally important to consider. But the point is that it is equal, it is not just about me. Now I just have to find someone who fits both the “for papa, for mama” and the “for me.”

The Tale of the Good First Date

We are sitting comfortably on the couch with our feet up, our shoes neatly laid out on the floor. The hour is late, an ideal time for deep, meaningful conversations. As our talking begins to slow down she finally concludes with, “It was a disaster of a date!” I nod in agreement sympathetically, reviewing each detail that she shared with me in my mind.

Although it has never happened quite like that, this story has happened many times over. Friends will frequently tell me horror first date stories that range from ones that went completely wrong to stories of dates that weren’t terrible, but contain a good story of something awful or awkward that was said or done by their date.

Bad4 has a nice collection of bad dating stories over here and she links to one of the craziest stories I’ve ever seen over here -I think that story is pretty unbelievable.

While I enjoy listening to these stories, I tend to feel left out when these stories are being discussed, since I don’t have any really great bad first date stories. That is not to say that I’ve never been on a bad date, just none that were extremely awful that have any remarkable stories (Bli Ayin Harah!). My bad dates seem to consist of either too many awkward silences or just a general feeling of “Ok clearly we are not meant to be together and this is not going to work” based on our conversation. The only stories I have involve the time I was on a date when it was windy and the guy’s Kippah flew off and he ran and chased after it, and certain times when guys said things that I thought should definitely not be said on a first date, let alone any date, or actually ever.

I do, however, have a number of “good first date” stories. The problem with these stories is that good first date stories are only really good when the end of the story is that you married the person. In that case you can say, “He did such-and-such on our first date, and from that moment on everything went right!” Or something like that anyway. No one wants to hear good first date stories that don’t end with marriage because they are just not as fun as bad date stories. Bad stories with bad endings are more fun than good stories with bad endings, because bad stories you can just say “wow that was awful!” but good stories with bad endings just produce the following reaction: “Oh.”

I have decided to share these stories anyway, because I think it is important to stay positive. Instead of channeling frustration by making a list for guys of “don’t do this on a first date,” it’s good for guys to have a list of things that girls appreciate and like on a first date.

And with that nice introduction, here is my list of “good first date” stories, or things that guys did early on that I thought were really nice. One or two of these stories are from friends, but they are all written in first person to keep things more simple.

1. When we were on the phone discussing locations of where to go on our date, one guy gave me a choice of three options of where we could go. I thought this was better than the general "what do you want to do," since I feel uncomfortable choosing a location when he is the one paying, and it is better than just picking a place without taking my preferences into consideration at all. (Side note: I am pretty flexible and don’t care about location at all- so far no guy has ever suggested something that I wasn’t up for at all, but it is still nice to be asked.)

2. In between my phone call with the guy and our first date was shabbos. On Friday he texted me something to the extent of: “Have a Good Shabbos! Looking forward to meeting you.” I thought that was sweet.

3. After mentioning casually that I was traveling somewhere (not far) after a night-time date, my date expressed concern for my well being, since he was not sure if traveling so late to this place was safe (it was!) and he asked me to text him when I got back OK. Even though I was perfectly safe, I couldn’t help but smile when he said that. When I was almost at my destination, he texted me "Did you get home OK?"

4. This is a good second date story, but I’m including it anyway. For a second date, one guy suggested we go somewhere and the suggestion was based on an unusual activity I had mentioned on our first date that I enjoy. I was very impressed because it showed that he was listening to everything I said.

5. One guy complimented me on something I was wearing. After a moment of being alarmed and thinking, “Wait, why is he noticing what I’m wearing? Since when do guys notice these things? Why is he complimenting me- no guy has ever done that is that normal?” I realized he was just being nice and I should just accept the compliment. I smiled and said, “Thank you.”

6. I once went on a date when I was in a location not near my home that I was unfamiliar with. The guy and I agreed that it made most sense to meet up in the place we were going to go on our date. Having the awful sense of direction that I do, I of course managed to get lost. So there I was in some random place, which I knew wasn’t too far from where I was supposed to be, but I had no clue how to get there. Slightly embarrassed, I explained the situation to the guy, who was super nice about the whole situation, told me to stay put and he walked all the way to where I was to come get me.

After reading these you might be tempted to ask, “Why didn’t it work out with any of these guys? They seem great!” This brings me to a point that I have been longing to make for a while now, especially in the role I mentioned above which I find myself in very often, the role of the listening friend. The point is: Just because a guy is a great guy, does not necessarily mean I want to marry him. Hopefully, most people in the world are good people. In fact as an optimist, I tend assume most people are nice unless they prove me wrong. (Don’t worry pessimists, I unfortunately find myself sometimes slipping towards the deep end.) Sometimes people act as though a person being “good” is enough reason to marry them, and in my humble opinion, that is not the case. They need to be “good for you” as well.

Just because a story doesn’t have a happy ending, doesn’t mean we can’t learn from it, grow from it, or even appreciate the good aspects of what it is. I can’t help but end by saying that one day, all of us singles, will find the story that doesn’t only have a happy beginning, but has a happy ending, too.

Looking Over Your Shoulder

In every group of friends there is the person who is the listener. That person is me. Perhaps because I enjoy listening, and perhaps because I like helping people think things through, I often find myself on the listening end of dating quandaries. It’s not that I’m an expert at giving advice, I’m definitely not, but apparently I’m a good bouncing board for ideas. Right now I’d like to talk about one problem in particular that seems to come up with a bunch of my friends, with slightly different manifestations depending on the situation. Let me paint one sample scenario.

A girl is dating this guy. (Great beginning, I know.) At some point in the relationship the girl is unsure how she feels about this guy. She kinda likes him, but she kinda doesn’t. She notices that she find other guys attractive. At which point she’ll say something to me like, “Isn’t it a problem that I find other guys attractive? If I’m spending my whole date looking at the guy on the date next to me, doesn’t that mean I’m not so into my guy? Isn’t that a sign that this isn’t the right person for me?”

It isn’t always about attraction and looks. Sometimes it’s emotional instead of physical. If the girl is close friends with another guy (part of the reason that on principle I don’t have guy friends) she might ask, “Why is it that I really enjoy spending time with this guy friend and why do I have no problem making conversation with him, while things aren’t as great with the guy that I’m dating?” Or sometimes this question takes the form of, “While I was on my date, I kept thinking of other friends of mine who would get along with this guy who I’d like to set him up with. If I’m thinking about setting him up with someone else, doesn’t that mean that I don’t like him enough? If I really liked him, wouldn’t I not want to set him up with my friends?!”

Now that I’m thinking about it, this kind of situation actually happened to me once. I was on a date with this guy in a restaurant and seated right next to us was another shidduch date. They were situated so that the girl was next to me and the guy was across from her, so it was easy for me to just look over and glance at that other guy, who happened to be much better looking than my date, in my opinion. So I understand where people are coming from. And that is the point when the thought enters, “Why am I more interested in someone else’s date? This is a bad sign! It must mean I don’t really like my date, despite the fact then when it’s just us everything is great!”

I’m not a dating expert, and I definitely don’t claim to be. Usually my friends just come to me to vent, and I don’t give advice. I don’t tell people what to do for many reasons, firstly because it is their life and their decision, secondly, because I might not know enough to be able to give the best advice, and thirdly because if I tell them to dump a guy and they end up marrying him, they’ll always remember that I didn’t think it was a good idea, and who wants to have that hanging over them?

So when it comes to this topic I look at couples who have been happily married for many years. I remember when I was a kid, I heard this woman tell her husband that she thought a particular actor was “such a hunk.” At the time, I was horrified. Even though the husband didn’t mind and the woman could list all the actresses her husband thought were beautiful. I was still horrified. It’s one thing if she wants to think in her head such a thing, but to voice it to her husband? Isn’t she supposed to tell her husband that he is the best looking man in the world to her? This is an extreme example, and we can debate whether what she said was right or wrong a different time, but the point is, we’re all human. We’re all going to find other people in the world attractive other than our spouse. If you think you get married and then suddenly every member of the opposite sex who is not your spouse is suddenly completely unappealing to you, then you have seriously underestimated the Yetzer Harah.

The husband and wife in my story each knew that the other one would naturally find other people in the world attractive (especially actors/actresses/models!) and instead of pretending that they didn’t feel that way they chose to share it with each other. For them it was completely healthy. Many girls would be extremely offended if their husbands told them that another woman is beautiful (unless their husband is closely related to that person, i.e. sister, mother etc.), but this couple is so comfortable with their relationship, they are so open with each other, and they are so committed to each other, that by each of them sharing their personal preference in looks in other people, the other person did not feel threatened. They each had the attitude: Yes, I’m attracted to other people, and you should know that, but you are my spouse, and you are #1 in my life, so that thought of “that person is cute” means absolutely nothing to me. In case you couldn’t tell, after I got over being horrified, I realized it was only their deep love for each other that allowed them to share these thoughts, and I thought it was refreshingly honest and down-to-earth.

I’m not saying that having an interest of some sort in another person other than your date means absolutely nothing. What I am saying is that I think if you’re interested in another person- be it physically or emotionally- it doesn’t necessarily mean that your date isn’t the right person for you. Just because you think your date would get along with a good friend of yours, doesn’t mean that they are not for you. If it’s later on in the relationship, and the girl still gets along much more with her guy friend, then it might be a bigger problem then if say, it’s the first couple of dates, and she’s glancing over at the guy at the next table. If you’re at the stage before you’re really invested in the relationship, then of course your conversation isn’t going to be as good as it is with someone you know very well, and of course you’re still going to be attracted to other people.

I’m all for questioning, I’m all for thinking about why you feel a certain way and why you react to someone a certain way. But don’t assume that just because you’re looking over your shoulder, that the person right in front of you automatically isn’t good enough.

Slipping up

I am a klutz. I have proved to be capable of tripping over my own two feet, bumping into walls, and knocking over cups filled with various liquids, luckily most often water, which is not nearly as difficult to clean up as soda, which gets sticky. The reason I mention this is because a while back I was on a date and we were walking some place slippery.

I always make sure to wear comfortable shoes on dates, ones that I can walk in for hours if need be. This is partly because I never know how much walking I will end up doing, but also because I enjoy walking and one of my ideal date ideas is just walking around and talking, preferably in the park on a nice, sunny day. I say this as a preface to the rest of the story, so that you don’t blame it on the lack of traction on my shoes, but the fact that I’m clumsy combined with the fact that where we were walking was slippery.

If you’re thinking, “Oh she probably slipped and fell down,” well, Baruch Hashem that did not happen. What happened was that I slipped, lost my balance for a second, and almost fell, but managed to regain my balance. The interesting part, though, was the guy’s gut reaction, which was instinctively to reach out his arms to catch me. Remember that this happened in all of about 3 seconds- me losing my balance, saying “whoa,” his arms in a split second reaching out, ready to catch me, and me regaining my balance, so there was no need.

But I always wonder what would have happened if I hadn’t regained my balance. Would he have caught me and would we have touched? Would I have instinctively grabbed on to the closest thing to help me regain my balance, meaning, him, and then quickly let go the second I was back on my feet? That would have been so awkward, so I’m glad it didn’t happen. But the alternative would have been to hope that he didn’t stretch out his hands, and just let me fall, so as not to touch me, which could be viewed as halachic or as rude, depending on how you look at it. He also came from a background where he had not been shomer negiah for his entire life, which I think was part of the reason why his impulse was to reach and not to refrain.

Here’s the question: Should he have stretched out my hands to catch me or shouldn’t he? I remember being shocked that his gut reaction was to reach out like that, instead of to panic and stand there motionless as I struggled to maintain balance. My immediate reaction was, “Hmm, was he really about to touch me?” I think if a guy I was on a date with lost his balance, my guy would be not to reach out, since it’s touching, and it’s been so ingrained in me to refrain from touching males.

I know of a girl who is dating a guy who was a trained EMT and certain circumstances arose where she needed medical attention and he was there and he did what he needed to do. She commented how strange it was for him to be touching her, but of course it was necessary so she was glad he intervened. That still doesn’t negate the fact that on some level it’s a bit odd.

So, what do you think? Should he have reached out to help me, and should I have taken this as a sign that he has good middos, and is a kind person for not letting me fall? Or should I have been concerned about the fact that he was so quick to abandon the laws of negiah? What would you do in this situation/ what would you expect your date to do in this situation?

Time to play psychologist

From a recent conversation I was having it seems like most people don’t know how to deal with people who are upset. Most of us get upset at some point and we all know that there are certain people who will calm us down, while there are others who talking to them makes us even more frustrated. The same is true when you’re on the flip side of the coin and a good friend or family member approaches you clearly upset about something.

This reminded me of the time when I was on a date and the guy was telling a story of how this girl he encountered was crying and he had no clue what to do and he asked if she was OK, and was shocked when she said no. He didn’t know people said no to that question. I thought that was ridiculous because why ask a question if you don’t want the answer? Why do you ask a question assuming the person will lie and say that it’s Ok even when it’s not? And why would you assume that someone who is crying is Ok…if things are OK why are they crying?

When he first told the story I was extremely critical and could not understand how he could have no clue what to say. Someone is upset! Try to comfort them! Even if you don’t succeed, at least try something. But then after I thought about it more and realized that guys are probably not used to dealing with people crying since guys are told by society that its not Ok for them to cry unless it’s a funeral or something. And after recent conversations it seems that many girls aren’t any better at knowing how to deal with people who are upset. So I guess I was a little hard on him.

Anyway, whether a person is crying or just plain angry, the best way to deal with it is by listening and not talking too much. Every situation is different and you have to use your gut to decide whether a person wants to talk or just wants to be left alone. But if they do want to talk, do not under any circumstances offer advice. They just want to vent. Just nod along and look empathetic and try to put yourself in their shoes to feel how they might feel if you were them. The worst thing you could do is to try to tell them why they shouldn’t feel the way they feel (they can’t help it!) and the second worst thing you could do is to tell them what they should do to stop feeling that way. They need to figure it out for themselves. You can try to help them in a more practical way after they have calmed down, but when they are in the moment, the best thing you can do is actively listen, pay attention to what they are saying. Don’t tell them everything is going to be OK because if they are not calm, then they are not rational, so they can’t see that. They are not in a place to accept what you’re saying.

If you have to say something besides for “right” and “that’s really tough,” then what you should be saying is something that validates them. Let them know that it’s OK to feel however they feel and that they have every right to feel the way they feel given the situation, even if you don’t believe that’s true.

Food for thought: What are things that people say to you when you’re upset that make you even more upset? What things calm you down?