Appearances: A Response to "Wearing Jeans"

Anon 99 wanted to post this comment on the "Wearing Jeans" post, but it was too long, so it did not let him post it. He makes a number of good points, so I am going to post his comments here with my response:

I do not wear jeans and have not since I was 10 years old. My wife does wear denim. The chiluk is that I try to always dress like I did when I was in Beis Medrash - hence I do not wear color shirts and wear dress pants generally (playing ball, exercising or on vacation is some remote place are exceptions as I am clearly not in Beis Medrash). For girls, although there may be a taboo in denim for some people, it is not a general held belief. Rather, there are people who say a girl should not wear denim and some who say who cares. No Yeshivish place allows their guys to wear jeans in Yeshiva and even outside yeshiva it is much more clear cut thing not to do.

Generally speaking, I find the statement it's not the clothes, the outside, rather it is the inside that counts, rather disingenuous. That statement is made to (1) lower the importance of outside appearance; and (2) make the people who value outside appearance feel like they are being superficial.

I actually take extreme exception to that statement. First of all, if using the statement in terms of actual looks/beauty, then I commend a person who actually adheres to the statement and quite frankly, in that case it is true. However, in terms of dress, the statement could not be more wrong. I truly believe that your inside impacts how your appear on the outside. They way you want people to look at you is the way you feel inside. Your mode of dress and the way you look tells the world what you are like on the inside. In other words, your inside is clearly important - the way you show your inside is your outside. So by looking a certain way - you are telling the world about your insides.

Let me begin by asking: If a girl (sorry female readers) is shomer negiah, keeps shabbos and kosher, davens every day, goes to shiurim and does a myriad of good things but does not keep tznius (and for lack of argument as to what is tznius, she walks around in shorts and talk top) - is that girl a "good" girl. The politically correct answer is yes. The real answer is although she does many good deeds, she simply cannot ignore the rules of tznius and be a good girl. She is breaking a clear important rule and she unfortunately gets lowered in status.

I wonder if anyone would argue in this case, "what about all her good deeds? Aren't her insides good? The only thing that she is doing wrong is an outside/appearance thing?" In this case, I think the more rational and unbiased thinkers would agree that this is a clear case where her actions, although many of them good, includes one inside deed that is reflected on the outside.

Moving this to another level, if a girl really cares about the halachos of tznius then she will be very careful in how she dresses, i.e. tightness, skirt lengths, necklines and elbows. The difference between the girls that really care about the details and the girls who are just trying to look good and keep within the minimum of the halachos could not be clear. I look no further than my own family where I there are clear differences in the manner of dress between certain relatives (ironically that are Stern girls) that dress with more care to looking "good" and less to ensuring that they keep the details vs. my more yeshivish relatives that somehow have no problems with their skirt lengths and tightness of clothing. The point here again is that their insides are manifested on their outsides. The relatives who really care about the details never have any tznius issues and the relatives who care more about looking good are walking around (and certainly sitting) with skirts just above their knees, clothing leaving nothing to the imagination and too much skin showing.

For guys: If a guy is in a Yeshiva where they only wear white shirts and he wears color - some people might say "what is the big deal, he is only expressing his individuality? Is that so bad - he is not breaking any halachos? Do we really need to be like that mindless drones from the famous apple commerical in 1984? Can't someone be a little different and not be looked down at?" My answer is these things are avoiding the point. Those questions are trying to accomplish the two things I wrote about above ((1) lower the importance of outside appearance; and (2) make the people who value outside appearance feel like they are being superficial) and avoid the actual issue. Why would a guy want to be singularly different than the rest of his Yeshiva? Being clearly different is making a statement. It is being porush yourself from your fellow colleagues. It is specifically saying I want to be different. Well then, if you want to be different and looked at through a different prism then you can't complain if people look down upon you for separating yourself, No one said you are a bad person - but you yourself are asking to be viewed differently. You are publicly stating that although your yeshiva brethren believe one thing - you want to express your different opinion and separate yourself. Well you did. Your insides are being manifested by the way you dress.

So coming back to the original point, there is nothing inherently wrong with wearing jeans. The issue is what statement are you making. If your society says that jeans are bad and you statement is thus I want to do what I feel is OK anyway - well that tells me about your insides.

There are two main points of clarification that I would like to make in repsonse to this comment, one about jeans and one about appearances in general.

Every society in the world has its own way of dressing. Style of clothing is different depending on culture, country, religion etc. Clothing defines what section of society you belong to. Dressing a certain way defines a person as “American” vs. “French” v.s “Israeli,” or “Young” vs. “Old.” Children dress differently than teenagers and than adults. The same holds true with in different sects of Judaism. Chassidish don’t dress the same way as non-chassidish, and so on and so forth. Whether we like or not, clothes define us. Though each person may have an individual style, we still dress to fit our general societal norms, because we will be labeled as weird if we do not.

Anon 99 is quite correct in his point that while dressing outside of a societal norm may not be wrong Halachically, it is still is a statement about where you feel that you fit in society. That is why dress is one of the first things to change when a person changes religiously- either becomes more religious or less religious. Some guys go to Israel and come back with black hats, while girls come back with opaque tights. Girls who become less religious drop their long sleeves and switch to short, and begin wearing pants. “This is who I associate myself with now,” is the statement.

The article about jeans, written by a Stern College student, is interesting because of the social demographic of Stern. There is a small percentage of Yeshivish students, who would never date a guy who wears pants, because that is how guys in their social world dress, and there is a small percentage of women who wear jean pants themselves, or even those who don’t wear pants, but wouldn’t think twice about a guy wearing jeans. In fact some of those might be skeptical of a guy who did not wear jeans for religious reasons. Then there is all of us in between, who are not really in one place or another.

I used to think I would never date a guy who wears jeans. Most guys I’ve dated are not the type to, though I never actually asked any of them. Since Stern, however, I have been surprised to discover that there are guys who are hashkafically on the same page of me, yet they wear jeans. I’ve only met a few, but that is enough to make me realize that for someone like me, who is in the middle, jeans are not a clear cut indicator of “this is where I fit in.” For others, jeans are an indicator.

The second point I would like to make is to connected to Anon 99’s first point about how appearances count, and it is not enough if a girl keeps all other mitzvot besides Tznius. The question I would like to ask is: Do appearances matter? The obvious answer is that yes, they do. But let me explain.

My high school spent a lot of time talking about tznius, and so I spend a lot of time thinking about it. Often the message conveyed was, “It’s not about what you wear, it’s about who you are inside. Tznius, by covering your body, places the emphasis on who you are inside.” It matters what you wear. Try showing up to a job interview in a t-shirt and jeans. Try showing up to a wedding in the outfit you wore to clean the bathroom. Try cleaning the bathroom in the outfit you wore to your friend’s wedding. This begs the question: If it's not about what you wear, then how can what you wear matter so much if it is really what is inside that matters? Why do our appearances matter so much?

My answer to this is simple: Your appearance represents who you are. No one can see who you are by glancing at you, so the only way to get a quick idea of who you are, people look at your appearance. How you look and how you dress is important because it represents who you are. But that is all, it represents who you are, it is not actually who you are. The real true important part is who you are. The bottom line is that as important as appearances are, who you are matters more. Would you rather marry an ugly nice person or a beautiful mean person? For anyone who hesitates- try spending a few days with someone who is mean to you, who puts you down, criticizes you, yells at you, and in general makes you feel like a piece of dirt. Trust me, you will then pick the nice person, no matter how ugly they are.

The issue with a guy who wears jeans is not about "it doesn't matter what he wears, it only matters who he is," the issue is that reversing that statement to say "it only matters what he wears and doesn't matter who he is" is equally wrong.

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Different approaches to "The Shidduch Crisis": Analyzing the causes and solutions

Recently Yeshiva World News and YU/ YUConnects each put out videos addressing the problem of “The Shidduch Crisis.”

To sum up, the Yeshiva World News’ video (click here to watch) explains that many girls ages 24-29 are not married- according to their survey about 14%. They attribute the problem to “The Age Gap,” which means that “In a growing population you have more younger people than older people,” and since guys marry girls who are 2, 3 or more years younger than them, there end up being a lot of girls who have no one to marry.

The YUConnects video, (click here), which is considerably longer (about 19 minutes) does not clearly define the problem and does not clearly define the solution. The tone of the video is more casual and informal. It is discussion-based and includes interviews with singles and shadchanim to paint a picture of some of the problems with the shidduch system in what I would call “YU type” communities.

Both the Yeshivish world and the YU world agree that there is a problem that exists which they call “The Shidduch Crisis.” However, there seems to be debate on two points: What is the Shidduch Crisis/how do you define it? And secondly, what is the cause of the shidduch crisis? It is only once you have answered those two questions that you can try to come up with a solution.

For the Yeshivish world, it seems that the problem (the definition of the Shidduch Crisis) is that there are many older girls who are still single and cannot find guys to marry. This premise assumes that the problem is mathematical (more girls than guys) and therefore the solution is about numbers. While it would be great if it was that simple, I have two problems with this:
1. If the problem is really the age gap, then how come there was never a Shidduch Crisis before? The population in the world has always been growing, and guys have traditionally married girls younger than them, (and in fact I would argue the age gap was larger in the past), so why wasn’t there a Shidduch Crisis 100 years ago? This makes no sense to me.
2. The solution of “Close the Age Gap, Solve the Shidduch Crisis,” only makes sense if the problem is the abundant number of single girls. Maybe in the Yeshivish world the problem is only that girls are single, but in the YU community at least, there are plenty of guys who are single as well.

So for the “YU world”, so to speak, what is the problem? What is the crisis? It seems that the crisis is that there is high number of both men and women who are single and who would like to be married, who have been dating for a long time. Now comes the second question: What is causing this problem of so many singles who cannot find a spouse? The way I see it, there are two possible points in the dating/marriage timeline that could be the source of the problem:
1. The right guys and girls are not being set up with each other, so they never meet, and so they never get married. Problem: They don’t meet.
2. Guys and girls are being set up, and they do meet, but after they meet they never progress from the stage of going out to getting engaged. People are too quick to break up. Problem: Relationships have no problem beginning, but they do not continue.

From the YU Connects video it seems that they believe the answer is choice #1, that the problem exists because singles are not meeting each other. In fact, I have yet to hear someone attribute the problem to #2; it seems the problem is that singles have difficulties meeting each other. As one of the guys in the YU Connects video said, “There could be a guy who is right for a certain girl, but they may never meet.” Why are singles not meeting each other?

This is where it becomes unclear. The video seemed to suggest a few possible sources of why singles aren’t meeting:

1. There is a problem with the shidduch system. Some argue that singles need to meet naturally and not only through being set up. Often two people do not appear to be compatible on paper, but when they meet in real life they work perfectly, and visa versa. Singles never meet because the system doesn’t allow them to. As they put it in the video, “Young people are not meeting in a normal fashion” because there is an “increasing tendency to separate the sexes.” If this is the problem, then the solution is not only create more singles events, which can be awkward and forced, but to create more events where singles can meet naturally, where the main goal isn’t necessarily dating, but just for fun.

2. There is problem with the mentality. Some say that the Shidduch Crisis exists because people focus on ridiculous details that are not important. Things such as the color of a table cloth on shabbos. (Side note: I have never actually met someone who cared about that- is that one of those things that is for real or people just like to use it as an example because perhaps one person asked it once and it is so outrageous?) I feel compelled to quote my favorite line from the video here, when one of the shadchanim interviewed says, “Don’t ask what Yeshiva he went to, ask if he’ll change diapers at 3 in the morning.” (If only it were possible to find that out!) This is the point where I feel shadchanim accuse singles today of being too picky, as that same woman said, “Maybe go out of your box and try it. Maybe that’s why you’re not married yet.” So, according to this reason, singles never meet because they refuse to go out based on unreasonable criteria.

If this is the problem, then the solution is to try to change the mentality- of the entire community, not just of singles- to focus on things that are important. This problem is not a problem only singles have, unfortunately many people today stick people into boxes and categories largely based on how a person dresses. A lot of this problem is a focus on the external and not the internal. As one of the shadchanim points out on the video about guys who only date girls who are sizes 0-2, “She might not be a size 2 after you marry her. Are you gonna throw her out?” While attraction is undeniably important, true love should prevail no matter if a persons appearance changes. That is just one example.

Obviously these two issues are not completely independent of each other; the fact that people focus on insignificant details exacerbates the problem with the shidduch system where couples are set up based on pieces of paper and not chemistry.

I have some problems with the first option, that there is a problem with the shidduch system and singles should just meet naturally. My first problem is that those of us who are products of YU type communities are being given mixed messages. All through high school and Israel girls are told not to talk to boys and guys are told not to talk to girls. We are separated, and I believe this is a good thing and that is how it should be. When girls and guys build relationships without the intention of it possibly leading towards marriage, then things get complicated. I know there are many couples who meet in high school and continue dating and get married, but my teachers always discouraged this citing the reason that being shomer negiah for that long is very difficult.

One could argue that although interaction between the sexes is discouraged before one hits a marriageable age, once a person is ready to get married, interaction should be encouraged for the purposes of shidduchim. This is what I think the argument is for singles meeting naturally, not through a shadchan. The problem is that since we have been trained not to interact with the other gender, it’s hard to suddenly begin interacting. I remember when I first started Stern College and all the sudden the administration was pushing us to attend co-ed events. I had just come back from Israel where talking to guys was extremely discouraged, and all of the sudden it was like, “Go! Talk to guys!” It was quite overwhelming and I had no clue where to begin. I was way to shy to start talking to a guy at an event (still am somewhat, but less so) and there was no way a guy would dare approach me- it would come across as being way too forward. Bad For Shidduchim has a post about this where her parents were disappointed that she had barely even looked at a single guy who she had a meal with, and she comments how her teachers would be so proud. So while meeting naturally sounds like a great idea, in reality there needs to be some sort of transition from “Don’t talk to the opposite gender!!” to “Talk to them now!!!”

And after you’re married, you’re expected to go back to not talking/interacting. That’s why it makes more sense to pick one- the Yeshivish approach that it is never OK to seriously interact with the opposite gender except on a date, or the more modern approach that it is always OK to do so. I think the middle approach is possible- that it’s not OK before and after you’re dating, but when you’re in the dating period, it is OK to break that rule- but there needs to be some serious coaching and assistance in the transition from one to the other. For both the guys and the girls.

My second problem with singles meeting their spouses “naturally,” is that there is a very fine line between interaction that is for the purpose of marriage and interaction which is not for the purpose of marriage. (I put the word “naturally” in quotes because meeting your spouse through a shadchan is also a natural process- the opposite would be a miracle, which would involve no median, but rather being handed your Bashert directly from Hashem. People tend to overlook that. Hashem is equally involved in making a shidduch whether two people meet at an event where they start up a conversation or whether another human being thinks of the idea and appears to be the cause behind the shidduch. Hashem is ultimately the only One who truly makes a shidduch.)

Back to my point, if there is a singles event where singles have the opportunity to meet, then hopefully the guys and girls will be talking and building relationships. Firstly, this brings us to the whole platonic relationship debate, of whether it is possible to have a platonic relationship and whether Hashem approves or disapproves of such relationships. Secondly, in this environment there is a possibility that a guy and girl could meet who are completely not shayach for each other, but they do have chemistry and so they develop feelings for each other. While sometimes these feelings have the potential to override the hashkafic or other differences between the two people, sometimes feelings are not enough. Then what you are left with is two people who are deeply in love, but should not be getting married. Perhaps one could argue that these are risks worth taking. No matter what there will be pros and cons, and if this method results in less singles and more marriages, then it’s worth it.

For those two reasons (mixed messages make meeting naturally difficult and meeting naturally could result in tricky relationships), I’m not sure that the solution is to drop the shidduch system entirely and just have singles meet at events or without being set up. I find the second reason I mentioned as to why singles aren’t meeting (a problem with the mentality) to be a much more compelling reason. This brings me back to the debate as to what is considered an insignificant detail that should not be used as criteria, and what is considered to be settling. The bottom line is that you never know what you would be willing to give up until you actually meet the person. It’s not that there are certain criteria that one should never give up and there are others which you should never be picky about. The mentality of focusing on details which might not be important is a problem and that should be changed. But that is not an easy thing to do, nor do I propose that it is the only way to solve the shidduch crisis.

So how do we solve The Shidduch Crisis? I definitely don’t claim to have the answer to that question. Perhaps by closing the age gap, by adjusting the shidduch system and by working to change the mentality of our community. Perhaps by being open to meeting people outside our box, and by trying to find ways for singles to meet each other.

Food for thought: How do you define “The Shidduch Crisis”? What do you think the cause is? How would you solve the crisis?

Update: There are a number of things I forgot to mention in this post.
1. I forgot to point out that even on the YUConnects video, they say that the problem affects girls more than guys- more girls are single.
2. In terms of the Yeshiva World News video, is 14% really such a high number? I suppose it is if you are one of the people counted in the 14%. I would be curious if they did the same survey in Yeshivas to find out what percentage of guys are single. I assume it would be lower, but it would be interesting if it wasn't off by that high a percent.
3. Another problem with the "let singles meet naturally at events and not through shadchanim" approach is that the Yeshivish world would never go for that.

Two videos about the Shidduch Crisis

I am in the middle of writing a review of the following two videos which each discuss "The Shidduch Crisis."

The first one, click here, was put out Yeshiva World News, and the second one, click here, is from YU Connects. The first one is short, the YU Connects one is about 19 minutes.

So for now, enjoy the videos, and get ready for a post comparing and discussing the two.

Hashkafa Part 2

In my previous post I was talking about trying to define myself and how the two categories I was in between were Modern Orthodox Machmir and Yeshivish/Black Hat. I realized that there was one point I forgot to make, and that is why I was so hesitant to define myself as “Modern Orthodox.” The main reason why I was hesitant is because many people associate “Modern Orthodox” with what is really “Modern Orthodox Liberal.” What’s the difference?

Well, to start with what they have in common:

1. They believe in G-d and that G-d gave us both Torah SheBichtav and Torah Shebaal peh and that Halacha is binding for today. Although we constantly have to apply halacha to new situations that modernity presents, we do not change or allow halacha to evolve, which is what the conservative think. Some people get confused about that last sentence. A practical difference between application and evolving, is application means when electricity was invented we tried to see what Halacha would say about its use on shabbos, evolving means that since they didn’t have electricity, it’s OK to use on shabbos. I think that’s oversimplifying it, and feel free to correct me on this one.

2. They both agree when it comes to the philosophical differences between Modern Orthodox and Yeshivish, which I mentioned in my last post.

The difference between “Modern Orthodox Machmir” and “Modern Orthodox Liberal,” in my opinion, really comes down to a few things which the “Liberal” believe are halachically permitted, while the “Machmir” do not believe those things are permitted:

1. Women wearing pants and short sleeves
2. Women singing in front of men
3. Women covering their hair after marriage (they believe women are not obligated to cover their hair after marriage.)
4. Men and women touching/ Negiah
5. Perhaps more recently- women becoming Rabbis, although this is an extremely controversial topic, and I think it depends on what you mean by Rabbi or “Rabbah” or “Rabanit” or whatever.

Please feel free to differ with me on this, I am quite curious to hear what others think the differences are. Are there differences that I didn’t mention? What do you think the difference is? I think this is much less clear and straightforward as to how to define these categories. What are your thoughts? Again, please feel free to disagree.

Hashkafa: Modern Orthodox or Yeshivish/Black Hat?

A common question that people ask when comes to shidduchim is, “What is your hashkafa?” In case you thought that was a vague question and you weren’t sure what it meant exactly, dating websites are there to assist you by listing categories for you to choose from including: Modern Orthodox Liberal, Modern Orthodox Machmir, Modern Yeshivish, Yeshivish/Black Hat, Chassidish, Carlebachian. Some include Modern Orthodox Middle of the Road (short side rant: really? Modern Orthodox needs 3 whole categories?? Oh, and does anyone really categorize themselves as Carlebachian?) , and some try to incorporate more general categories such as “Shomer Mitzvot.”

When I first signed up for a dating website, I had to make the decision: What do these categories mean and which one do I belong to? I used to believe that labels were essentially evil terms created by those who needed words to express their prejudiced opinions. After all, if there is no name for a group, then it is much harder to define them and thereby discriminate against them or make sweeping generalizations. Then I changed my opinion because I became prejudiced and needed those terms. No, I’m just kidding. At least I hope I’m just kidding, but what really happened to me is I realized I needed to describe people in certain social groups, so I conformed and started using the terms that everyone else was using.

When it came to picking what category I fell into, I was torn. I grew up in what I would call a Modern Orthodox home, but as I grew older I became more religious and took on more halachot. My high school consisted of students who were Modern Orthodox and Yeshivish. “Modern” was used almost as a bad word, interchangeable with “less religious,” as in “Oh, they are frum, but they are Modern,” or “She’s modern.” I never defined myself as Modern Orthodox for that reason- in my mind it has a negative connotation. But I never defined myself as Black Hat either, since my family and community is not Yeshivish. But my choice came down to one of those two.

When trying to decide, I remembered something that one of my Rabbis in high school said. He was discussing the differences between “Modern Orthodox” and “Yeshivish” and I think he put it quite nicely. He said that there are 3 main philosophical differences between “Modern Orthodox” and “Yeshivish/Black Hat.”

1. The secular world: The Modern Orthodox believe that there is something to be gained by being a part of the secular world and that there is nothing wrong with it. Therefore they make sure their children receive a good secular education, and are more likely to own televisions and listen to secular music. Black hat/Yeshivish on the other hand, believe in more of an approach of separating from the secular world. That is why they are against television and secular music etc.

2. Women: The way that roles are defined for women in Modern Orthodoxy and in the Yeshivish world is very different. For example, MO emphasize the importance of women learning Torah and believe that women are allowed (and some would say encouraged) to learn Gemara. Yeshivish/Black hat encourage women to channel their energy privately, not publicly, in a more Tznius way. I’m not sure if my Rabbi didn’t explicitly state this, I think that one thing that falls under this category as well is the separation of the sexes. Modern Orthodox weddings will often be mixed seating, while Yeshivish/black hat will be separate. Modern Orthodox often send their children to coed schools, while Yeshivish send their children to single gender schools. This also includes interaction between genders. Many Modern Orthodox have no problem with guys and girls hanging out or being “just friends.” Yeshivish/Black Hat approach says that guys and girls should not just be friends and each gender should only have significant interactions with the other gender if it is for the purpose of marriage (or if they are related).

3. Israel- Modern Orthodox believe that the State of Israel is the beginning of the flowering of Mashiach coming- Reishit Tzmichat Ge’ulatenu, whereas Yeshivish/Black Hat love Eretz Yisrael and focus on it’s holiness, but are not such fans of the State of Israel because it is anti-religious.

Going over how I feel on each of these issues, I end up a little bit of both. On certain issues I agree strongly with the Modern Orthodox philosophy, while with other issues I agree very strongly with the Yeshivish approach. After attending Stern College, part of Yeshiva University and therefore a Modern Orthodox institution, I would say there are two other small differences that I have observed between the two groups, aside from those big three. (Feel free to disagree, as this is only my opinion.)

1. Approach to Studying Torah. The Yeshivish/Black hat approach to studying Torah is entirely from a religious standpoint. They view studying the Torah as a means to keeping Mitzvot, becoming closer to Hashem and spiritual growth. This goal has a large emotional component. Modern Orthodoxy agrees with that viewpoint, but also approaches Torah from an intellectual, academic perspective, where the way they study Torah is comparable to studying a piece of literature, except that they keep in mind that the Torah is from G-d and therefore the greatest piece of literature that could be written.
2. Approach to Halacha: The Yeshivish/Black hat approach is to be machmir whenever possible. They are completely devoted to doing as much as they can to serve Hashem. As I like to say, “If Hashem created us to serve Him, how can we not give up everything to do so?” Why not be machmir if you can be? They like chumrot and going that extra mile, taking that extra step to serve their creator. The Modern Orthodox approach is that being machmir is the easy way out. If you’re not sure what to do in a halachic situation, the easier approach is to just be machmir. It takes lumdus and intellectual effort to find a valid way to be Maikil and find a halachically permissible way to be lenient. If you are unnecessarily strict, then it might be too much. If something is permitted, why add on extra prohibitions?

So where does all this leave me? Am I Modern Orthodox or am I Yeshivish? Which one do I tell shadchanim? Which one do I put down on the dating website? I am a bit of both, since I am split when it comes to the philosophical issues. I understand both sides and think both sides are valid in their approach on all the issues- neither one is right and neither one is wrong. I have opinions of what I believe is right for me, but those opinions are evenly split between the two. And that is what I say when I am not forced to choose, but on dating websites I have to pick one.

There is another factor that went into my decision and that is the social aspect. Socially, my community is not Yeshivish. I am a proud alumnus of Stern College, which is as an institution is Modern Orthodox (this is not to say that there are no students who are Yeshivish, there definitely are. And the Yeshivish world looks down on them. Just kidding again, about that last sentence.) Despite agreeing with many Yeshivish outlooks, I had to face reality after much, much thought (a lot of thought). In the end, I selected Modern Orthodox Machmir. But since I do not define myself as “Modern,” I was not entirely happy (and I’m still not entirely happy) about picking this.

So what about “Modern Yeshivish,” you might ask? This category is the least well defined category of them all. It is my experience that some people think that “Modern Yeshivish” refers to people like me- partly Modern Orthodox and partly Yeshivish. But my actual experience is that most people do not define it that way. Most people define “Modern Yeshivish” as someone who grew up Yeshivish and then became more “modern” in the sense that now they watch TV and listen to secular music and they have jobs in the secular world (as opposed to learning in Kollel- another issue that divides MO and Yeshivish that I didn’t even touch upon) and are more involved in the secular world.

Since this happens to be one of the issues on which I lean more towards the Yeshivish approach, I do not want to define myself as Modern Yeshivish. Those are the two aspects that I am not. I’m not Modern and I’m not socially Yeshivish. “Modern Yeshivish” people are Yeshivish people who moved to the left, and I am a Modern Orthodox person who moved to the right. (Side point: Once someone tried to set me up with someone with this hashkafa, and after looking into it, it made no sense since we had completely different backgrounds and we were going different directions in our life. He had moved to the left religiously and I had moved to the right. I guess the shadchan thought we would meet in the middle. Completely illogical in my opinion.) Some people define “Modern Yeshivish” as both Yeshivish moved left and Modern Orthodox moved right, but I don’t define it that way.

My conclusion is to pick “Modern Orthodox Machmir,” when I have to pick one. (Side point: The counterpart should really be Modern Orthodox Maikel, and not “Liberal” or else “Machmir” should be changed to “Conservative,” but that would get way too confusing to be called Modern Orthodox Conservative, that would really mix people up. I think they should just go with Modern Orthodox Right Wing and Modern Orthodox Left Wing, but that’s just a technical point about how to call things, the definitions would still be the same.)

Why did I write about this? So now you can all stick me into a box in your brain and apply all the stereotypes about “Modern Orthodox Machmir” to me? No, I am writing about this because I think most people, once you’ve gone over the issues I’ve mentioned and how you feel about them, don’t completely fall into either category. I am writing about this to discuss my struggle to define myself and where I fit in.